White House Intrigue

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A transcript of the weekend’s program on FOX News Channel.:

اضيف الخبر في يوم السبت ٢٢ - أبريل - ٢٠١٧ ١٢:٠٠ صباحاً.

Gigot: Christian churches in Egypt holding scaled-back celebrations this Easter Week, following the deadly bombings at two churches last Sunday - Palm Sunday - that prompted President el-Sisi to declare a state of emergency. This, as Pope Francis plans his first visit to Egypt at the end of the month.

We’re joined by Nina Shea, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. Good to see, Nina. Welcome.

Nina Shea: Thank you for having me.

Gigot: So, what is the condition this Easter of Christians in the Middle East? How bad is it?

Shea: It’s very bad. ISIS has declared a genocide, a religious genocide against the Copts in Egypt. It did so, of course, with the bombings on Palm Sunday. It also released a video in February declaring the Christians there to be their favorite prey and calling them apostates.

And, of course, they’re not apostates. They date their religion, their faith to St. Mark, the evangelist, the gospel writer in the first century. And they are the largest Christian population in the Middle East. They number about 9 million. And they are also the largest non-Muslim minority in the Middle East, even more numerous than the Jews in Israel.

Gigot: Wow! So, how big - why is Islamic State targeting Christians in Egypt? Is it because they think - there’s, obviously, the religious apostate issue, but do they think that somehow the Egyptian state is unable to defend them?

Shea: Absolutely. It’s both religious and political. They want to - they have a goal of purifying Egypt and the Middle East for Islam. And they think that this can resonate among the people if they stand up as the biggest, most extreme Islamists.

And it’s worrisome because a Pew poll recently showed that 74 percent of the Egyptian people want to be ruled by Sharia law. And the government has been actually incompetent in protecting them and discriminates against them in their own way.

Gigot: I keep reading about an exodus of Coptic Christians from Egypt, more and more each year people leaving. How big - what kind of - what are the numbers of people leaving?

Shea: Well, there are 9 million Copts, so they can’t all leave, Paul. But many have left. And we’ve seen churches here, for example, in the United States, of the Coptic Orthodox Church grow from 2 in 1970 to about 200 Coptic churches here today.

Gigot: Wow!

Shea: Yes. We don’t know the actual numbers. But anybody who can is trying to get out - let’s put it that way - at the point. That’s what we’re hearing.

Gigot: OK. So, Pope Francis is coming there. Should we worry whether or not the Egyptian government can keep him protected from a terrorist attack?

Shea: Well, I think that that is just such visibility that they will probably do a good job with that. More worrisome is the Coptic Pope. He has been the target of two attacks now, including on Palm Sunday, where he was in one of those churches.

So, it’s going to be - but the greatest challenge that Pope Francis has is when he meets with Al-Azhar, the Sunni center of learning, and really communicating a message that they have to change the culture. They have to define what is meant by infidel and to make clear that you do not kill infidels.

Gigot: Is it fair to say that Pope Francis has been relatively muted so far in what he’s been willing to say about tormented Christians around the world?

Shea: He has been fairly muted. He was the first one of prominence to come out and say that the Iraqi and Syrian Christians attacked by ISIS were facing genocide.

But he has not really harped on that issue. And one of the reasons I think is fear, fear that it will put them in further danger.

Gigot: Right.

Shea: I’ve been doing this human rights defense work for 30 years, Paul, and I’ve never seen where it made it worse to talk about a situation. It actually helps protect people.

Gigot: All right. We’re going to be watching that trip very carefully. Thank you, Nina Shea, for being here.

Shea: Thank you, Paul.

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